Beauty in the Brokenness- Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)

Chasing God's Glory Through Grief with Dorina Lazo-Gilmore-Young

• Episode 139

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Dorina Lazo-Gilmore-Young is a glory-chaser. In her 30s, she was raising three children, happily married to Ericlee, and running a thriving international non-profit ministry. Her world was turned upside down when her athletic, triathlete husband received a devastating stage four cancer diagnosis and graduated to heaven just three months later. Suddenly, Dorina found herself a widow with three daughters ages 2, 5, and 8. Even in the midst of her grief, she learned to look for God's glory—in sunsets, in breath prayers, and unexpected moments of beauty, all while God was writing a redemption story she never would have imagined!

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Teresa Whiting:

Hi, friend. If you've ever wondered how God's word connects with the messy, broken parts of your story, you're in the right place. Welcome to Beauty in the Brokenness, where we have honest conversations about the Bible, our real life struggles, and the hope God brings for healing. I'm your host, Teresa Whitey, an author, Bible teacher, and trauma-informed life coach, but mostly a friend and fellow struggler. No matter who you are or where you've been, I'm inviting you to encounter with the God who is still creating beauty right in the midst of your brokenness. Well, welcome friends. I am excited to introduce you to my guest today. I am speaking with Darina Lazzo Gilmore Young. She's an award-winning author, speaker, mentor, and Bible teacher who loves to help people discover God's glory on life's unexpected trails. She is a remarried widow who lives in Central California with her hubby Sean and three courageous daughters. Darina has published more than 20 books, including children's picture books, Bible studies, devotionals, poetry, and nonfiction. And Darina, I am just excited to have you back on the podcast today. We uh I'll tell the listeners a little inside story that we recorded this a couple days ago, and I forgot to press record. So here we are for take two. Um and so thank you for your grace and for coming back on.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's a gift and it was meant to be. I'm glad today.

Teresa Whiting:

I'm glad you're here as well. And um, before we jump into some of the questions I have for you, would you tell the listeners just a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Um, thanks so much, Teresa. It's a joy to be able to connect with you. And I know that you and I share um similar heart and passion in a lot of different ways. In this season of life, I am mothering three teenage girls who are in different seasons of life. My youngest is 14. My middle daughter is about to turn 17, and my oldest is 19, and she's in college, so studying abroad. And my middle girl is a junior in high school, and my youngest is in eighth grade. So I'm kind of straddling, you know, middle school, high school, college, age kids. Um, I also teach two classes a day at the local high school. And um, I am a journalist by background. So I'm I teach a journalist journalism class, and then the rest of my day I really devote to um doing podcasts and speaking and writing projects. Um, so every season, every quarter of the year is a new and different kind of project for me, and I have to follow what God's assignment is for the day and try not to worry too much about what's going to be happening next month or next year.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes. Yes, I love your heart. We kind of got connected years ago through a writing group that we were both in, and I've kind of been following your work over the years and your story. And I know that you have your own story with grief. Um, we have been talking about Tamar's story and the model of lament that she is for us. And um, would you share a bit of your own story with grief and how it has shaped your life?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. Um, I appreciate you asking. So my grief journey really began um in 2014. At the time I was um in my 30s, and my girls were ages two, five, and eight years old. And my husband and I were the directors of a nonprofit organization that was working in Haiti. Um, so California was our home base and our church and family. We're all out here in California, but we would kind of split our time between going to Haiti to support the nonprofit and then working on um development and partnerships here in the U.S. And we received a devastating diagnosis that year that my husband actually had stage four melanoma cancer. And that was actually a diagnosis that very much felt like a sucker punch to the gut. He was a very healthy guy. Um, he was a triathlete and a coach and a health teacher. And, you know, we had this flourishing ministry that was happening in Haiti that we were um partnering with so many churches around the US to help to develop. I was running a fair trade jewelry project. So just a lot that was going on in our lives that seemed good and seemed like it was flourishing and blooming. And then we received this diagnosis, which really forced us to halt everything that we were doing and to focus on treatment for my husband. And just to kind of, you know, skip a rock through the story a little bit, he actually graduated to heaven that year, just three short months later after we got that diagnosis. And so, although it was a cancer journey, it was a short one in the time that we knew that he had cancer. And so there I was suddenly, you know, a young widow with three little girls and this international organization that I was in charge of. And I really um I really had to cling to the Lord in that season to help me navigate all these things with my family, with my work, with my ministry, and even as I was even trying to figure out, you know, how do I pull these pieces together after the loss of my husband?

Teresa Whiting:

That's a that's a really difficult story, and I'm sure that was a quite a harrowing journey, you know, especially just to find out, and then three months later that he's gone. How old were your girls at the time?

SPEAKER_00:

So they were two, five, and eight, so they were really little. Um, and then he turned 40 that year. Um, so yeah, I mean, we're just kind of in the in the throes of having a a young family and chasing after the dreams and assignments that God had given us.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, and then all of a sudden you're thrust into this grief journey that you it seems very unexpected. And I think sometimes in um in faith spaces, we sometimes minimize grief. We don't really know how to handle it very well. Sometimes it's misunderstood. What do you wish we understood better about grief?

SPEAKER_00:

Hmm. That's such a good question, and it's something I'm really passionate about talking about in this season. You know, I think it starts with this realization that every grief journey is unique, and at the same time, grief is going to be a part of every one of our journeys. So, you know, a lot of you know, we've lived through a global pandemic, and I'm sure listeners, you know, could relate some of their own grief journeys. They could talk about the loss of loved ones, or they could talk about leaving a community or having to leave a church or a school or some major shift that has happened in their career path or in their finances. All of these are examples of ways that we have to grieve when things change. When there are big changes in our lives, grief is there. And I think it's important to normalize conversation around grief for that reason because we all have to go through it. And it doesn't actually work to push it aside or to push it down. In fact, that usually manifests itself in a in a negative way somehow in our bodies and other things that that pop up if we don't deal with our trauma and we don't deal with our grief. And so that's something that I think the church and we can do better in normalizing conversation around grief and making space for it. Because if we're going to step into it, we're going to make space for it, then we can enter into it in a healthy way in partnership with our God who is the ultimate comforter. Yes. Yes.

Teresa Whiting:

Um, as I mentioned, we've been talking a little bit about Tamar and just the way she models Lament for us. And um, I had an episode last week with a woman who had a very um difficult story who really never saw justice um on this side of heaven and has her own type of grief. You look at Tamar and her pain, and then even the things you mentioned, you know, you talked about just moving, moving to a new place. There's a grief that takes place. And I think so often we ignore those things and we just think, oh, it's a move, it's exciting, it's something new, and we don't take the time to really feel the pain. What are some ways that you think grief shows up, but we don't really know how to name it as grief, or we don't acknowledge it or recognize it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, truly, it does manifest itself differently in everybody, but our body keeps score. I know there's the a title of a book that um just the title of that book ministers to me when I remember it. Um, and you know, there's a deeper dive that you could take into some research about that, but our bodies know. And so it's interesting to me because sometimes that shows up in our fatigue, in our experience of anxiety, of triggers that you know might happen. Say you're going down a certain street and you see, like if I I used to have a trigger where I drive down this certain street where the hospital was, where my husband um spent some time for his treatment, and it was traumatic and it was hard for me. And I wondered why, why is my heart beating faster? Why do I feel this anxiety every time I drive down this street or the street that was close to where we used to live, where he passed away. You know, those were things that I didn't I couldn't name in the beginning. I didn't have the language for, but now I know that those are triggers in my body. Um, even certain dates, you know, maybe it's a birthday or an anniversary, or it's the anniversary of the day that the person died or the day that you moved. Those are things that kind of trigger that grief for us, and it can come out in so many ways. Tiredness, anger, frustration, um, even brain fog. You know, those are things in talking to other widow friends that I realized, oh, this is actually a normal part of the process. And I think if we recognize that those are part of the grief journey, we can also have more compassion for ourselves and for each other.

Teresa Whiting:

I love that you use the word like normal. I think we need to normalize it. And because it's not talked about, people feel, what's wrong with me? Why why can't I get over this? Why am I not okay by now? Um, and you talked a little bit about making space for people to grieve. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, that was something on my own journey that was very interesting. And I kind of felt like I was driving in the fog because I didn't know what was around the next corner. I didn't feel like I had, you know, some manual that told me like this is how to survive grief. And because it is so unique, that was something that um that was, you know, important for me to recognize. But I think making space for me meant, you know, not filling all the calendar squares, not continuing to lead in all of the ways that I had been leading before. I really had to pull back from my commitments. I didn't say no to everything, but I said no to a lot of things. And I started to say yes to some new things as well. And so part of that for me with my girls was I said yes to travel. I said yes to going to to visit people who I knew would care well for us. I said yes to nourishing our bodies, to getting outside. Um, one of our, you might call it a coping mechanism, but I call it chasing God's glory. One of the things we did every night is we would go outside and we would watch the sunset together. And, you know, my girls were little and I'm sure they thought their mom was kind of crazy, like, mom, why do we do this every single night? I would literally pull my car over if we were on the freeway and and we would watch the sunset or we would go to our backyard. But there was such a peace in being in creation and that beauty that was painted differently every night, that for me was a it was really an expression of the creator and the comforter that our God is. And I think that even if they couldn't articulate it, my girls began to sense that that okay, when we do this together, when we watch the sunset, somehow we're connected to daddy in heaven and somehow we're connected to God, the creator. And something happens in our mom that her spirit calms. And even now, you know, my girls, as I mentioned, our teenagers and you know, one young adult who's launched from the home and they still send me pictures of sunsets. Mom, I saw this sunset and I thought of you, or you know, mom, I'm out here at the beach or I'm I'm at soccer practice or whatever. Can you believe this glorious sky? And so for me, those were some of the ways that I was able to make space for grief. And again, it's so unique, but I wanted to share some of those tangible examples because I think um it gives all of us maybe some holy imagination to think about okay, well, what what does work for other people? Um, for me, it meant getting out on the trails with some of my girlfriends and running. I sweat and I though those were my tears. And, you know, brain science even supports that, that when we move our bodies, we actually can move through our trauma and get unstuck from some of those places. I didn't know that. I was a runner, you know, before I lost my husband, but that was another thing that was kind of um a therapy, so to speak, that the Holy Spirit invited me into. So those are some of the ways we can make space for grief. I also think that, you know, sitting with the scriptures, journaling, being quiet in different ways, allowing ourselves to cry. Tears do good work in our bodies. And so often I think we're afraid of tears or we're embarrassed to cry in front of other people. And it just hit me in my grief journey. I I couldn't wipe this away for my kids. And so why not let them be part of it? Why not let their mom be an example to them of someone who is feeling that deeply? And you know, Jesus modeled that for us too in the scriptures.

Teresa Whiting:

Oh, so many, so many practical ideas. I love the things that you said, especially love that you talk about tears. Um, a few years ago, I stopped apologizing for crying and I stopped hiding. Like I used to always cry in my room. You know, I would go where nobody could see me. And I was like, why am I hiding? Like, this is good, this is healthy, this is normal. And, you know, my my kids kind of got used to it. Like, okay, mom's crying again. I'm like, yep. Yeah. Um, it's just, it's just a part of our lives that we have to normalize and stop apologizing for. Um you created a resource called Um Breathing Through Grief. It is a beautiful journal. Can you talk a little bit about that resource? Because I uh was looking through it the other day and it is just it has so many different facets.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you, Teresa. You know, this book actually is the book that I wish I had at the beginning of my journey. And it took um 10 years to get to publication because I was living that journey. Um, and it's interesting, even you know, kind of the meta-narrative or the story behind the scenes of what was happening with this book, because I actually had pitched it to publishers in 2015, which was like one year after my husband passed away, but it didn't get published um until more recently. And I know that that was by God's design. I know that God was waiting for some things that needed to be learned in me. And I know that it was, you know, his timing and the format and the editors that I needed. So this is a devotional journal for seasons of loss. And what it includes is devotional stories. So those are stories right out of my own life of things that I experienced on my grief journey. And then those stories invite people into their own journey. So there are questions, kind of journal prompts where people can answer those questions in light of their own grief journey. There are breath prayers, um, there's some soul care practices, even some of the things that I just mentioned to you that were part of helping us through our grief journey. And there's also some ideas in the back, um, some kind of bonus resources that are creative ways to help honor a loved one that you have lost. These are all part of just what came out of my real life and what I learned as I was ushering my children through grief, recognizing that all three of my girls are very unique and have different personalities and different needs, and then also tending to my own needs in partnership, I'll say, with the Holy Spirit. So I hope it is a book that helps people feel like they're not alone in their loss and that they can honor a loved one who has died, or maybe it's a job loss, or, you know, the loss of identity, the loss of a dream. Those are all things that we grieve, but seldom do we take time to actually make space to reflect and ask God, what am I learning from this? And how can I move forward, or where are those places that I'm really stuck? And so I hope that this is a resource that will encourage people to do that in a gentle way.

Teresa Whiting:

I think my favorite part is the journal prompts because there's something about when somebody else asks you a question and you start writing and You start processing, things come out that you didn't realize were in there. And I love that. I I'm a writer, so I love to write things. Um, but even if somebody is not interested in writing, even if they were to take the book and speak those answers aloud, hearing themselves process, I think, is a is another option if somebody's like, oh, I don't want to write a lot. Um, I would challenge you to give it a try because it really does help us to process. For someone maybe who's feeling a little overwhelmed by their grief, would can you give just a simple practice that would make them feel grounded and safe? Just something you've already given us so many practical ideas. Do you have another one?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, this is one that is in the book and it's called breath prayers. It's a breathing practice. But I do like that this one is really simple. And so it doesn't require poetry or eloquence. It doesn't require that you've got all your theology work worked out. It actually just invites you to breathe and to enter into that grief journey with God. And so one of the things that is part of a breath prayer is that it's like this short meditation, a short phrase that you'll breathe in and then you'll exhale. So I might, you know, inhale something deeply, and then I would say, God is, and then I might exhale with me. And just that simple phrase, God is with me. I mean, it's rooted in deep theology that is from the word that God is Emmanuel, he is God with us, he never leaves us alone, he is Elroy, He sees us, He is, you know, Jehovah Nisi, He is our refuge, and yet it just saying that simple phrase can be something that can help us.

Teresa Whiting:

Um, I know another book that you wrote is called Redeemer, and it is about the story of Ruth, and that's a story that you relate to. Would you share a little bit about that book, but also your journey and kind of take us forward in your story a little bit?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, in breathing through grief, actually, towards the end of the book, I talk about, you know, can you dream again? Can you think about the future? And that's something that's really hard for us to do often when we're in the depths of our grief. But just really um inviting readers to think about well, what does it look like to recalibrate? What does a new normal kind of look like? How can you tune your heart to God's dreams and the things that He has for you? And truly, that's what happened for me. So Redeemer is a very different type of book. It's actually a Bible study, it's a six-week Bible study. And I went through the book of Ruth, which is one of my absolute favorites in the Bible and was, you know, long before my own grief journey, but it just so happens that God had me in a Bible study at my local church, and we were going through the book of Ruth during that first kind of quarter, couple of months after my husband passed away. And it was a safe place. It was a church where I had been apart for many years. And as I was reading the book of Ruth, you know, as a freshly minted widow, if I can say it that way, my eyes were opened to, wow, this is a story for me. This is, you know, a story that has application for all of us. And so from that study that I did with my church, I started to think about, you know, how God was using Ruth in my own life. Um, also during that time, God used our community in really tangible ways to care for my daughters and me. And I was so grateful for that. I believe it was my late husband's investment in community as a teacher and as a coach and as a missionary that then paid beautiful and unexpected dividends in my life because those were the people who then circled back to care for us. And from that community was a man named Sean, who was one of my late husband's uh best friends growing up through youth group, high school, and college. He had been in our wedding. He stood up as one of our groomsmen and he was a dear friend of ours. He supported our ministry financially and prayerfully, had traveled with us to Haiti. And Sean was a, he was just a friend that I appreciated and loved. Um, and in that season, we were reconnected because Sean had run this triathlon race, um, an Iron Man race that he dedicated to my husband. So I had reached out to him and we started talking on the phone. And he was on the other side of the country. And he was just a safe person for me to share my grief with because he was also grieving. Little did I know that God actually had a story that he was inviting both of us into. And so Sean was one of our dear friends who my late husband Eric Lee and I, we had prayed for almost every day of our marriage, that we prayed for his future wife because we loved him so much. And we thought we want somebody really special for this guy. And little did I know that God was actually having us intentionally pray for me. And so Sean and I uh were married in 2016. So we're we're celebrating 10 years of marriage this year in 2026, and Sean adopted my three daughters officially, and so they, you know, added his last name, and we have become a new family. We are living what I like to call my next chapter of life, and so this book, Redeemer, actually guides people through the book of Ruth verse by verse, but then there's also video teachings that go through each week, and in those video teachings, I tell my story of how this next chapter of our lives unfolded and how God really met me as the redeemer and redeemed my life.

Teresa Whiting:

I love that. I love the book of Ruth as well. I love hearing your story. I love God as redeemer. Um, that is a theme from my book, Grace: how God just can redeem and restore all the broken things in our lives and all the stories that we look at and think are so hopeless or helpless. And and yet God is like, but no, I'm writing something new and beautiful, and you have no idea what I'm gonna do with this. And so that that just like gives me chills. I love it. Um, how can we talk about redemption and hope without minimizing the pain that comes before the redemption and the hope?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, that's a really nuanced question because I think there are certain things within our culture, our American culture, and then we have layers of, you know, probably different cultures and different families. Um, and then even in our own wiring, that we have to be cautious. We have to be careful that we're not just skipping to the end or, you know, trying to push that grief aside and then, you know, trying to find the takeaway or what's the silver lining? Now, I absolutely believe there is silver lining, and I absolutely believe that God's glory is around every corner, even when we are in the midst of suffering and pain and difficult things. But I think what I had to realize, and it's because I'm a person who is more naturally positive. I lean towards that. That's one of my gifts, is that I have a gift for positivity. And I'm a I'm an Enneagram seven, which means I'm an enthusiast. I'm I'm a person who always will tend towards the glass half full, the rosy glasses, perhaps some people would say. And so for me, I had to be cautious that I wasn't skipping through the tears, skipping through the hard parts, skipping through those questions that were really burning in my heart as I was reckoning with my theology of suffering, just to get to the like, you know, this is good or this is happily ever after. And so I think I have learned to lean into my grief. And I had needed to do that for my kids too. I needed to do that for my community. My whole community was grieving the loss of my husband. And because we had very kind of public lives with the type of ministry that we did, everyone was grieving alongside me at their own paces in their own ways. And so it wasn't going to be helpful for me to just say, oh, you know, let's not be sad. Let's keep moving forward. I needed to make that space for it. And, you know, I see that even in the book of Ruth. It's interesting because we get this narrative of these women who are grieving. We get the story of Naomi, who is Ruth's mother-in-law, and it says she calls herself Mara. She calls herself this name that means bitterness. And like, that's so real that this is who she is when she's going back to Bethlehem, going back to her people in her hometown. And then we get to see the reversal of that at the end of the story, where she is not bitter, but she's actually full of abundant joy. And so that's part of the thing. It's like, it's like when something tastes kind of bittersweet, it has a different depth of flavor to it. If it's just all sweet, the way that it hits our tongue, it's almost it almost makes you cringe a little bit if something is too sweet. But when it's bittersweet, there's this interesting balance that makes you go, oh. And I like to think of um embracing our grief in that same way too.

Teresa Whiting:

I like that. I like the way you put that. And um I love that. Um I'm totally losing, I'm totally lost my train of thought. It was good though. What you said was good. Um, okay. Darina, is there a passage of scripture that's been a lifeline for you? Is there something that you've returned to over and over that something that's guided your life or your ministry?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, definitely the book of Ruth, as we were talking about, has been an anchor for me. But I will say there's another story that happens in the Gospels, and it's something that I've taught out of many times as I speak to people about grief. And it even just continues to anchor me through the day-to-day, you know, life of raising teenagers and being a female. And that is John chapter 11. Um, I really love this passage. It talks about these two sisters, Mary and Martha. And I don't have time to unpack the whole story right now, even though I would love to. But at the crux of it, and many people probably know this story, we have this dear friend of Jesus named Lazarus, who has gotten very sick, and he actually dies before Jesus is able to come. And so when Jesus arrives, Mary and Martha, his sisters, are grieving deeply. And it's such an interesting dynamic because these sisters are faithful friends of Jesus, and they called for him because they believe that he can heal them. And so the story was so powerful to me in especially those early days of my grief, because that's how I felt. I believe that Jesus could heal my husband. I believe that he could perform a miracle and that it could be for his glory. And he didn't choose to do that in the way that I thought it might happen. And so there is a disappointment and a confusion that I had to walk through. And you see that in Mary and Martha, these sisters, and the way that they're processing their grief. But what I love is in John 11, Jesus comes, and there's two things that he does. One is that he grieves with the sisters. He has a plan to resurrect Lazarus, to raise him from the dead, but he doesn't go straight there. He could have, but he doesn't. He actually goes to sit down on the curb and he cries. It says he wept, and some translations show us this strong weeping or this emotion that he goes through and he expresses with those sisters. And for me, that was permission. It was permission to say, This hard thing has happened. I have loved someone deeply, and he's no longer here, and I didn't expect that. And then what I love, Jesus does is he has this conversation with Martha, and Martha's even recognizing, like, Lord, you're the Messiah. You can do anything. And Jesus asks her this question. He says, Have I not told you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God? So verse 40, have I not told you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God? And that question felt like this piercing question to my heart on so many days. Am I gonna believe in the midst of the hardest part? Am I gonna believe when I have no energy, no strength to raise these kids alone? Am I gonna believe when my whole life was up-ended that it could be for the glory of God? And when I asked myself that question, then it was an invitation to go on a hunt for the glory to look for his glory. And I know you in big ways.

Teresa Whiting:

I know you have a resource. Um you have a substack and it's called Glory Chasers. Tell us about how we can get in touch with you and kind of follow your writing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Glory Chasers is kind of my thing. So I do have um, it's actually a kid's book that's called Chasing God's Glory. And then my substack is called my Glorygram. And the Glorygram comes out once a week. And I started this as kind of a, you might call it a newsletter, but a way to stay in touch with my readers and to really pour into people on a regular basis and to share resources. And my goal with my Gorygram, and it's my favorite thing that I get to write every week, is that I love to start with a story. And that story is inviting people to chase after God's glory, to look for God's glory. It's a way that I have been invited to feast on God's glory that week. So something, you know, from my own family life or something that I've learned, and it's ask asking other people to become glory chasers with me.

Teresa Whiting:

I love it. I am gonna have links in the show notes, Darina, to all the ways that people can find you and get in touch with you, links to your website, your Substack, um, just all the ways that people can find you online. But um, in closing, would you speak directly to the listener who feels unseen in their grief right now?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think I want to say to you, my friend, that you are not alone. And I don't say that just as a platitude. I say that because it's something that I experienced myself. And there are moments in grief where you feel intensely lonely. But when you look in the scriptures, what we have evidence of in every chapter and every book of the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, is an arrow pointing to Jesus as our Redeemer. And Jesus, one of his names, Emmanuel, it means God with us. So God sent his son to earth to live with us, to walk in the neighborhood with us, to sit on the corner and cry with us so that we could feel seen and so that we would be reminded that we are never alone. And so I just want to be that reminder, that voice to you today, if you are in a grief journey, to remind you that you are not alone, to encourage you to be brave, because sometimes it requires reaching out to someone else who is a trusted friend or family member or therapist, and also to go on the glory hunt that my girls and I did, to look for God's glory around the corner. And you might find it in a cup of tea with a friend, you might find it in a medical bill that God creatively pays for. You might find it in a redemption story that you had no idea was being written. And all of those things were true in my life. Um, so I sit here today as a testimony to the fact that you are not alone and that he sees you.

Teresa Whiting:

Thank you so much for being my guest today. Just sharing a little bit of your story and all the beautiful things that God has shown you and taught you over the years.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been a joy to be here, Teresa. Um, thanks for the invitation.

unknown:

All right.

SPEAKER_00:

What time is it?

unknown:

Yay!

Teresa Whiting:

Awesome. Um there were a couple things. Uh, first of all, how did you find me? Because you you pitched me like, hey, I'd love to be on your podcast. Was that through somebody? A mutual friend, maybe?

SPEAKER_00:

That's funny. Now I can't remember. It came with my website. It came on my website.

Teresa Whiting:

Yeah, like just like a week ago.

SPEAKER_00:

I think did you put something in Hope Writers or another group about your podcast?

Teresa Whiting:

Not recently. It's been many years since I've put anything in Hope Writers.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, that's so wild. I saw your podcast, and I was like, I've been I was this last couple of weeks, I was looking for more podcasts that I could share about Redeemer. And I I think I just I'm not quite sure if I saw it on a post or what it was, but I looked at it and I was like, I feel like I know her already, and I love the theme of your podcast. And just as I was digging a little bit more and just the things that you were talking about, I was like, oh, this is right in line with my heartbeat. So like I said, meant to be, because I don't even remember my perimenopause brain. Like what how did I actually like I don't think it's that someone recommended it, but yeah.

Teresa Whiting:

Um, the other thing I was gonna, there's like so many things we have in common. Um my I'm I'm an Italian and my husband and I went to Italy this year for the first time. Yeah, and um my family is we still have family there. We didn't get to visit with them because we were on a cruise, so we were very, you know, regimented in our schedule. But one of these days, my mom and And my aunt and my sisters went a few years ago and they got to be with the family and go in the house where my grandmother grew up and all the things. And I was like, I want to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Where in what part of Italy?

Teresa Whiting:

Um Bari, Body.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Yeah.

Teresa Whiting:

Uh that's where my mom is from. And then my dad was from Florence.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, okay. Okay. So yeah. Um, I've been to Florence. I haven't been to Badi, but one uh one of my dear friends here who lives here in the Central Valley, she actually just went on an Italy trip with her mom too, and that's where their family is from. So, and you might have seen on my sub stack that I took a trip to Italy with my husband and my parents this year. So I did.

Teresa Whiting:

So I was like, oh, we just came to it.

unknown:

Yeah.

Teresa Whiting:

We were there in September. So it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we went, we went in July. It was it was really truly a trip of a lifetime. I mean, not just vacation. It was vacation, but it was also this kind I felt like this return to the motherland that I had never been to before. Yes. But just getting to walk the cobblestone streets and be there with my mom and go to the Nona's houses and the cemetery. And yeah, it's magical.

Teresa Whiting:

Um and the last thing, you were talking about fair trade, and I recently signed up with Trades of Hope. Do you know Trades of Hope? Yeah, yeah. So I'm a that's amazing. Partner, whatever you call. I don't know. That's one of those things like I gotta get that on my website and I haven't yet.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like ambassador, maybe or something. Yeah, I don't know what they call it. The business that I started was called the Haitian Bead Project. And I do, I believe that Trades of Hope, even there's been so much that has happened and overturned in Haiti.

Teresa Whiting:

So I'm not sure exactly, but I know I had looked at them before for partnership, and I think they had a partnership with Haiti for some of their because I know they have a lot of partners all over the world, but yeah, it's just that same heartbeat of like, man, if I can do something, and when I go speak, um the last speaking engagement I had, I brought my book. It was the first time I did anything with Trades of Hope. I just I placed a very small order and sold almost everything. And I was like, oh, people like this stuff. Yeah, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, actually, that's a good reminder for me, too, that um I should do that even with my speaking events. A lot of times I talk about the Haitian Bead Project, but I should bring like a little basket or something just for to sell with my books as well. Um, one of my friends took over, you know, that business. That was one of the things I I had to say no to and kind of surrender after my husband's death, um, which was really hard at first, but was meant to be. And I feel like I'm in the place where I get to share the story that can also point people, you know, back to the project. Um yeah, those were those were special years too, because I got the joy of pouring into the women in Haiti and then also, you know, telling their story in the US when I sold the jewelry.

Teresa Whiting:

So yeah. Wow. Well, it has been so fun. Thank you again for your graciousness in me learning how to use riverside. Actually, I think my free trial ends today, but I I have to like pay for something so that I don't lose the stuff we've done. Because I think after talking to you about the editing, I'm like, I think I want to get I think I just want to sign up for the basic package so that I can yeah, you I mean that is one thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I do it depends on uh with podcasting, I do think that it's worth it because you can have everything in the same place and because they've added so much, but I do think that there is there's different levels, and you might have looked at that. Like there is a free level, and then there's like a kind of middle level um that you can pay for too. But they might have put more things behind the paywall.

Teresa Whiting:

Yeah, yeah. I think I hit my free, my max of free, it was like 20. I don't not even, I don't know, it was like 10 hours free or something. Yeah, I'm like, I think they give you 10 hours, and I had used it, and I thought if I deleted those things that I could keep using it, but no, they're like, no, you only get 10 hours once, and then you start paying us. I was like, okay, uh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's um yeah, so I'm gonna podcasting is hard because it's like unless you're gonna monetize it with commercials, it's like you have to pay to do it, but then it is bringing in an audience that you can't actually quantify.

Teresa Whiting:

I know, I know it cracks me up when people say, So how much do you make as a podcaster? I'm like, Do you mean how much do I pay? Because I'm not making anything and I don't have commercials and I'm not making any money. But for me, it's an opportunity to just get the word out about the book. I started it because of grace, and now I'm using it to promote scene, and so it I feel like it's one opportunity. And I love to speak and I love to share God's word. So I'm like, well, it's one way I can do that.

SPEAKER_00:

And oh, I love I love podcasting. Um it's it's a really to me, I listen to podcasts all the time. I, you know, when I go to the gym, I'm on the treadmill, I listen to the to podcasts, or when I'm in the car, little snatches of time.

Teresa Whiting:

What are some of your favorites before we go? I know we have to go at six o'clock, but um let's see. I'm always looking for good ones.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, one that I love, my friends Krista and Alex do is called Our Time to Rise, and it's for women in midlife. And it's it's so applicable to like all the things that I'm going through right now. Um, you know, raising kids, young adults. Yes, I'm not an empty nest yet, but moving towards that and all the perimenopause, menopause stuff, and then you know, taking care of parents, like all of those types of topics they go through from a Christian perspective and bring in really great guests. Um I'm looking at my podcast little player right now. Uh my friend Sarah Butterfield has a podcast called Theology on Purpose.

Teresa Whiting:

And I love Sarah, I get her newsletter.

SPEAKER_00:

Bible nerds. So I love listening to hers. And then the other one is called the Alabaster Jar, which is all like female theologians going deep into all things Bible. Um so those are some of the ones that are kind of like top at top of my list that I listen to every week.

Teresa Whiting:

Well, thanks. I am I'm always looking for you know good ones because I listen to a lot of podcasts. So well, it was so fun talking with you. And yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

And you when did you say, or are you still fixing? This is coming out Tuesday. So Tuesday, okay.

Teresa Whiting:

On Monday, I will send you, or it might even be before Monday. My mom is coming in town from Texas tomorrow. Um, I'm hoping to get some of these things done before next week. But I will send you links to the the episode, to the YouTube. Um, I'll send some graphics and swipe copy and all the things.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Yeah. Well, I will share it on socials on Tuesday, and then um my Glorygram comes out on Saturday. So I'm gonna put that on my list for next week. Let's see. That would be the 31st.

Teresa Whiting:

And I think um, I think you can tag me. I'm I'm still learning Substack, but I'll find it on there and I'll restack it or whatever the thing is that we do. I'm I seriously it's called Beauty and the Brokenness.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so yeah, I can I think I can tag you in it so then it'll show it to mention, or you can repost it too, or vice versa. Um yeah, but I'll make sure.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, and I will actually I will send out on Tuesday morning, I send out a podcast, a weekly podcast update every Tuesday. So it will have all the things, it will have links to your book, your website. Did you I I pulled up, um, I did do a doc. Let me just see. I I have your website, I put the Amazon page where your books are, your Substack and your Instagram. Is there anything else you want on there?

SPEAKER_00:

Um let's see. You said Substack website. Um Amazon books and your Instagram. If you want to just put the subscribe for the Glorygram, it's daring more backslash subscribe. And that gets them my it's my substack, but it helps me because it puts them into my email list as well.

Teresa Whiting:

So I I just have Darina's Glorygram. I need to maybe you can just send me that link. Yep. Because when I go to the link, it's just telling me like upgrade to pay. And it says a lot of other things besides just subscribe.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, this one is actually not on Substack, it's on my website. And it's a it's a form that you just put your name and your email in.

Teresa Whiting:

Is that what you're looking at? No, I'm actually on Substack. Okay, so if you send me that link, I'll just put like sign up for the Glory Gram. Yeah, that's great. That's so helpful. Um did you need any pictures or anything? I I pulled one. Um, it's a picture of you in a green dress, like with woods behind you. It's really lovely. Yeah, that's fine. I pulled it off of something. Usually I ask people, there's like a lake and a mountain behind you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's totally fine. That one's great. Yeah. Um okay, I'll send you this link. That one's a good one.

Teresa Whiting:

Yeah, and if you want a different photo, you can send it to me because I haven't done anything really with the photos yet.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. I mean that one. Do you make like a little cover that says the title of the podcast or something? And use those pictures.

Teresa Whiting:

So there will be there will be that picture and there will be, you know, it's like a little podcast cover, you know, so it's fine to appear.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes I look at my Instagram and I'm just like, okay, I want to make sure I'm not in the same using the same picture in every post. So that one I haven't used for a little while. That's totally fine. Okay. Perfect. Okay, great. All right, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you. All right, see you later. Bye. Okay, bye. Oh, you know what? Do I have to says it's still uploading? I need to, I just remembered. I need to wait till it says 100%.

Teresa Whiting:

Do we have to like stop talking or something?

SPEAKER_00:

No. You can stop it from recording. Um but I need to stay in the world.

Teresa Whiting:

Well, wasn't that a sweet conversation with Dorina? I'm so glad that we finally made it work and got to have that conversation. Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dorina as much as I did. I hope you will head over to all the links in the show notes and follow her Glorygram and sign up for her newsletter. Um, she just has some really wonderful resources that I think will be life-giving to those of you who have struggled with grief or um and she's got all different kinds of resources. Her podcast, um, there's things about recipes and just all kinds of things. So uh if you haven't, go check out all the all things Dorina. So if you haven't yet, go check out all things Dorina. Thanks for hanging out with me today on beauty and the brokenness. To find anything we mentioned on the episode, go to TeresaWiting.com. To find anything we mentioned on the episode, go to Teresa Whiting.com slash episode dash one three nine. There you will find all the links to connect with That's where you'll find all the links to connect with Karina and design up for her. I highly recommend it. If you are enjoying this podcast, would you just take a minute and leave it? If you're enjoying this podcast, would you take just a minute and leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts? That is one way you can help me spread the word about beauty and the brokenness. In closing, I want to leave you with this prayer from number six, I don't even know what it is. In closing, I want to leave you with this prayer from number six, twenty four to twenty six. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you, the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace.