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Find Hope Here with Teresa Whiting - Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)
Find Hope Here is a podcast about holding the messy, complicated, painful parts of life alongside the beautiful, joy-filled hope that Jesus promises. Join Teresa Whiting each week as she digs deep into God’s Word and shares truths that impact our everyday lives. Listen in as you're walking, running errands, or folding laundry. No matter where you are or where you’ve been, you will always find hope here! To learn more visit: https://teresawhiting.com/listen
Find Hope Here with Teresa Whiting - Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)
The Courage to Heal with Jody Allen - Part 2 (SEXUAL WHOLENESS SERIES)
Pornography has invaded countless marriages, shattering trust and distorting God's beautiful design for sexuality. When 64% of Christian men struggle with porn, the ripple effects touch nearly every family and church community—yet we're keeping silent.
In Part 2 of our conversation, Jody Allen continues to share her journey after discovering her husband's pornography addiction. She begins with this powerful declaration: "We do not have to tolerate pornography in our relationships." This isn't about being judgmental or legalistic; it's about honoring God's design for marriage and setting healthy boundaries without apology.
Have you or someone you love been affected by pornography in your relationship? Share this episode with them—breaking the silence is often the first step toward healing.
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we do not have to tolerate pornography in our relationship. We do not have to accept that it's okay, because pornography is not God's design for marriage. God's plan is sex in marriage between one man and one woman, and since the pornography industry is outside of God's design, it is absolutely okay, it is appropriate and it is healthy to set boundaries so, and I think we don't have to apologize for that. We don't have to apologize for not allowing or including pornography in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Hi, friend, you're listening to Find Hope here. I'm your host, teresa Whiting. Author, speaker, ministry leader, friend and fellow struggler. This is a podcast about the messy, complicated, painful parts of life, but also the beautiful, joy-filled hope that Jesus promises. Each week we dig deep into God's Word together and talk about how His truth impacts our everyday lives. I'm not going to ask you to sit with me and have coffee, because I seem to have my best conversations while I'm just doing life. So I'd love to hang out with you as you walk or fold laundry or drive to work. You're invited to join me in pursuing the hope God promises, no matter where you are or where you've been. I pray you always find hope here.
Speaker 2:Let's jump in to today's episode. Hey friends, welcome back to part two of my conversation with Jodi Allen. If you haven't heard part one yet, you will want to go back and hear Jodi's story of her discovery, of her husband's struggle with pornography and what that did to their marriage. But we're going to jump right back in to where we left off. So I want to circle back to what I mentioned a couple of questions ago when we were talking about the fact that this series is about sexual wholeness or healthy sexuality. So for the person who is in a situation where their spouse is addicted to pornography, how can that person live a life of sexual wholeness or healthy sexuality, despite what their spouse may be involved in?
Speaker 1:What I think about healthy sexuality. To me, it means aligning our thoughts, aligning our beliefs and our ideas and our actions with what God says about sexuality. So being healthy, sexually or otherwise, starts with truth, right? What does God say about who I am, about my situation, my relationship, about sex? And to fill our minds with God's truth. But I think that also means that we have to be honest about where we are and because ignoring our pain and pretending like everything is fine it's not going to heal us or it's not going to move us forward. And part of that honesty is naming our feelings.
Speaker 2:Do I feel unworthy.
Speaker 1:Do I feel rejected? Do I feel unimportant For me? I felt dismissed, like I didn't matter, and so it's healthy to name those feelings, because we cannot heal what we don't know. I'm a big fan of a feelings wheel and because I think we can get stuck in thinking that we only feel these certain emotions when the feelings will just gives us an array of different emotions to help us really get to the root of the problem. So we can be honest with ourselves. Now we don't want feelings to drive the ship. Feelings are a good indicator, but not necessarily good truth tellers. So we definitely want to acknowledge how we feel, and I do think there are some truths or some beliefs that we can hang on to as we pursue healthy sexuality while we're living in a relationship that is affected by pornography.
Speaker 1:And the first one is we do not have to tolerate pornography in our relationship.
Speaker 2:I really love that. Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1:We do not have to accept that it's okay, because pornography is not God's design for marriage. God's plan is sex in marriage between one man and one woman and since the pornography industry is outside of God's design, it is absolutely okay. It is appropriate and it is healthy to set boundaries and we see from the beginning of time in Genesis that God created boundaries when he separated the water from the sky and the land. Those were all boundaries and I think we don't have to apologize for that.
Speaker 1:We don't have to apologize for not allowing or including pornography in our relationship. I also feel like it might be helpful to redefine, when you're walking through something like this, to redefine what intimacy looks like for this season. Does it look more like taking a walk? Because closeness can look different these days, because sexuality isn't just about the physical, it's about the emotional safety, it's about respect and things of that nature, and I think it's important thing to remember that as we pursue healthy sexuality, that we can't change other people, that we are only responsible for ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what what you just said about intimacy. Um, in my conversation with Dr Carol Tanksley, I loved, loved what she said. She distinguished between sex and intimacy and she said you know, you can take your clothes off with somebody and have no intimacy with them, or you can keep your clothes on and intimacy is taking the coverings off of your heart and off of your soul and like just bearing your inner self to somebody. And I thought that is so true and beautiful. And what you were just saying about redefining intimacy in this season and maybe it means you're going to keep your clothes on but you're going to do more to bear your soul and to bear your heart and to show up honestly and with integrity and with, you know, vulnerability in those ways which can bring you closer to the time when maybe there is going to be sexual intimacy again. So I loved, I just love that you said what you know determine what that will look like in this season.
Speaker 2:And also this is just kind of a side note, but I read, I just recently read a book by Emily P Freeman and I she said this phrase and it has really helped me now at the end of a sentence like this is how it is for now, and I'm like, oh, that's so freeing to realize, just because something is hard right now, it's not going to be like this forever. It's like this for now, and I just you know, when we were talking about this it made me think of that little phrase like this is what intimacy looks like for now. I think that would help both parties maybe. Oh yeah, what are some of the things that have helped you on your healing journey? Because I know you have come a long way in healing and I know your heart is to help other women who are walking this. What are some things that you would say are really helpful for a healing journey?
Speaker 1:I think for me and for all women is really the body of Christ. The body of Christ rallied around us in such a profound way. A friend. I had a friend that would take me to lunch and she would help me sort out my next steps, and I would leave with she would make a list of what are your, the three things that you need to do in the next week, and it was when you're walking through a trauma like that and you're emotionally distraught, it's really hard to think past today. So it was very helpful to have somebody do that for me.
Speaker 1:And you know people that change your headlight or fix your garage door, pick up your kids from school or send you care packages those are just beautiful people that just make your life better. And even the South Carolina Department of Transportation. As we were going down to the treatment center to visit my husband, we had a flat tire, and so thank goodness for the South Carolina Department of Transportation. And during that season we actually connected with two other families and we just for years after that we did Halloween with them, we did New Year's Eve, we did the Super Bowl, and so that was just a really neat thing. That sort of came out a difficult season, and so I know that being around people can be hard, but it can also be healing, and so I feel like just being having people in your corner is super important for the healing journey, but I also think having great counselors.
Speaker 1:I am a big fan of counseling and I had a Christian counselor. I also had a certified sex addiction therapist which I completely loved both. I mean they both gave me something very different. And my kids, I mean they went and they did Play-Doh and that sort of thing, which was very helpful for them. But then also, I will say, staying in the word. The day the last time that I found pornography on our home computer, I called two people and one of those was a pastor at our church and he gave me advice that day, and one of those was stay in the word and take one day at a time.
Speaker 1:And so the stay in the word. It was so profound, like I just needed somebody to remind me to do that. And when we were separated, I remember I would go to bed at night and I would lay my open Bible. It makes me teary thinking about it. I would lay my open Bible beside me where my husband was supposed to be, because I don't know about spiritual osmosis, I don't know about any of that, but whatever God wanted to give me, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss it, so I slept with my Bible.
Speaker 2:That is so beautiful. I love that. I love that. I love what you said about staying connected to the body, because we don't heal in isolation. We really don't. It's very rare that somebody will, you know, just be able to walk through something like this on their own other family that you connected with. But my guess is, if you were to be vulnerable and talk to you know somebody in your church or in your community, the likelihood is you know you're going to find people who are in a similar situation, but they're just not talking about it.
Speaker 1:Like we said, the statistic before 64% of Christian men. Well, that's two thirds. So that means probably two out of three of your friends are probably walking this same road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and and somebody needs to be the one to go first and say, right, this is what's happening. And I, I don't necessarily think that is gossip. If you're, if you're looking to support one another, that's not just you know, I need someone to vent to, or you know, but really, being a support system, I think there's a difference there. So those are some really great, great thoughts. Were there any specific passages of scripture or songs that got you through this? I know you said stay in the word in general, but, like, was there a passage that just jumped out at you that you kind of held on to through this season?
Speaker 1:I remember, right after my husband moved out, I remember walking around Hobby Lobby desperately looking for a plaque or something that had Jeremiah 29, 11 on it, and a lot of people take it out of context, but I think it's true, according to the counsel of the whole scripture, because God does know the plans that he has for us, plans to prosper us and not to harm us and to give us hope in the future. So, while that may be taken out of context, the counsel of his whole word does say that. And then Proverbs 3, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on understanding, because truthfully, teresa, I don't understand why pornography is the most lucrative industry in the world. I just don't understand that, why so many lives are wrecked by pornography, and I'll never understand those things. So I just really have to put my trust, have to put my trust in God.
Speaker 1:And you know there was a song by this group, cutlass. This was a few years ago when we were walking through this, it was 2013, maybe 2014. And there was a song cut by Cutlass and if I can read a couple of those lines oh yeah, even if the healing doesn't come and life falls apart and dreams are still undone. You are God. You are good, forever faithful one, even if the healing doesn't come. Lord, we know your ways are not our ways, so set our faith in who you are, and even now. That puts tears in my eyes because my life by all accounts fell apart, but God is still faithful.
Speaker 1:He is still faithful and I am a big fan of memoirs and autobiographies and I was reading while we were separated. I was reading this book called Johnny and Ken, which Johnny Erickson taught him.
Speaker 1:She wrote it with her husband, and there was a quote in that book that really has resonated with me for years since then, and it is this there is no circumstance, no trouble, no testing that could ever touch me first until, first of all, it has gone past God, past Christ and right through to me. If it has come that far, it has come with great purpose, and that was just a reminder to me that my pain has not in vain, that God has a purpose, even if I don't like it, teresa. But God has a purpose for it, not just in my life but, I think, in my ex-husband's life and in the life of my children.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love that, jodi. I love that, just that perspective that God is allowing this for a purpose and that you're seeing it, you're on the other side. You've walked a great distance on this journey. You're not right at the beginning, and so I think it's so helpful for you, as somebody who's kind of experienced a measure of healing, to be able to say to the, to the person you know you're, you're going to make it, you're going to be okay after this. What is like, what's just maybe one or two practical steps that a listener can take today if they're wanting to pursue healthy sexuality or sexual wholeness after this type of betrayal. What is something they can do practically?
Speaker 1:Well, I think there's probably an internal step and maybe an external step. The internal step is you have a choice to make. You have a choice to make Choose to address the issue of pornography in your relationship and not to sweep it under the rug or pretend like it's not happening. Because if we keep living in secrecy, the enemy keeps winning, which means we're not, it means we're not. So I think we have to internally decide that I'm going to choose to address this issue. That is not whole, it's not healthy sexually. So choosing to address that.
Speaker 1:And I think the external step after that is, once we've made that choice, we have to tell a trusted person and we have to break free from the shame and tell a trusted person whether it's a friend or a pastor or a cousin, and tell a trusted person whether it's a friend or a pastor or a cousin. And it will be hard, for sure, because it's a shameful topic, there's a lot of humiliation, but it will also be freeing. And I think something that would be helpful even is women could even just write it down and just read it, because that is easier, because when you're reading something it's kind of like you're removed from it. So to tell somebody. We could even write it down and read it to them it just gets.
Speaker 1:Gets us out of that shame.
Speaker 2:That's a great idea. That's really. That's very practical. I appreciate that. As we close up, before we close up, how can the listeners connect with you? I will have links in the show notes to all the places that you are, but what's the best way for people if they want to connect with you?
Speaker 1:My website is JodiAllenWritescom and you can connect with me there. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram at Jodi Allen Writes.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, good, good, all right. So, as we close up, would you be willing to speak directly to the listener who is in the situation you found yourself in, where you know you found that your husband was struggling with pornography? And there's women that are listening right now and they know their husbands are struggling and maybe they've had conversations or maybe they haven't. I don't know where they are on the journey, but would you speak to that person?
Speaker 1:I really want women to know is that you do not have to squeak by, you don't have to just survive this. Right now it may seem that way, but you can get to the other side of this heartache and this pain and flourish. Pornography does not have to win, and that's because we serve a God of hope. When the Israelites finally left Egypt, where they were in captivity for years, they didn't leave empty-handed. The Bible says that they plundered the Egyptians, which were their captors. They left with treasures like silver and gold and clothes, and the Bible tells us that the Israelites took with them the best things of Egypt. And so we can take the best things from our time and suffering and our encounter with pornography and from our pain. It may not be cold or silver or material things. Maybe it's a new perspective or a new friendship or new skills or just a fresh start. If we know Jesus, we have the potential to get through to the other side of this heartache and be whole and happy, even if it doesn't turn out the way we think it should.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate that. I hope that that brings some encouragement to the listener. I think it has encouraged me just just kind of hearing your story and seeing how far you've come and seeing you living a whole satisfying, you know life. Not that everything's perfect, no, nobody's living a perfect life on this side of heaven. But you are not stuck and you're not trapped in that traumatic situation anymore. You are free. So thank you, thank you for sharing, jodi.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me, Teresa.
Speaker 2:Thanks for hanging out with me today on Find Hope here. To find anything we mentioned on the episode, go to TeresaWhitingcom slash listen, which is where you can find all the show notes. Dot com slash listen, which is where you can find all the show notes. I'm sure that there are many of you who can relate to Jodi's story, and so I want to encourage you to connect with her, to visit her website Jodi Allen Writes and to get a copy of her book Hidden Heartache. If you enjoyed today's episode, would you do me a favor? Leave a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. That is one way you can help spread the word about Find Hope here. In closing, I want to leave you with this prayer from Romans 15.13. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope.