Find Hope Here with Teresa Whiting - Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)

Breaking Free: A Woman's Journey Out Of P⭕️rn Addiction with Dr Juli Slattery (SEXUAL WHOLENESS SERIES)

• Teresa Whiting • Episode 111

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In this episode, I speak with Dr. Juli Slattery about the growing issue of pornography addiction among women. We discuss how the porn industry has intentionally targeted women, the shame that keeps many trapped in silence, and the neurological and emotional factors that make it difficult to break free. Dr. Slattery shares insights from her book Her Freedom Journey, co-authored with Dr. Joy Skarka, which provides practical and biblical guidance for women seeking freedom from pornography. The conversation highlights the importance of surrendering to God's grace rather than simply trying harder and encourages women to find hope, healing, and community in their journey toward sexual wholeness.

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Dr Juli Slattery:

The porn industry has intentionally gone after creating porn that hooks women, and so you know, people say well, aren't men visual and women are not. You know, women can be visually aroused too, and they tend to want more of a storyline attached to that. But the pornography industry brings in more money than the NBA, the Major League Baseball and NFL combined annually. So you're talking about a multi-multi-billion dollar industry that is very motivated to get consumers hooked young, male and female and so they've aggressively gone after the female market, gone after the female market.

Teresa Whiting:

Hi, friend, you're listening to Find Hope here. I'm your host, teresa Whiting. Author, speaker, ministry leader, friend and fellow struggler. This is a podcast about the messy, complicated, painful parts of life, but also the beautiful, joy-filled hope that Jesus promises. Each week we dig deep into God's Word together and talk about how His truth impacts our everyday lives. I'm not going to ask you to sit with me and have coffee, because I seem to have my best conversations while I'm just doing life. So I'd love to hang out with you as you walk or fold laundry or drive to work. You're invited to join me in pursuing the hope God promises, no matter where you are or where you've been. I pray you always find hope here. Let's jump in to today's episode. Well, welcome friends. I am so excited to introduce you today to our guest.

Teresa Whiting:

Dr Julie Slattery is a clinical psychologist, author, speaker and the president and co-founder of Authentic Intimacy, that's a ministry devoted to reclaiming God's design for sexuality. She's the author of 12 books and host of the weekly podcast Java. With Julie. She and her husband, mike, are the parents of three sons and they live in Akron, ohio. So, julie, welcome to Find Hope here. Oh, so good to be with you. Thanks, teresa. I'm just I can't tell you how excited I am for this, for this opportunity. So, as we begin, why don't you just tell the listeners a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

Dr Juli Slattery:

Yeah, boy, the last 12 years God has called me into this space of biblical sexuality and before that I, as you mentioned, I'm a clinical psychologist. I was more kind of focused on, just like marriage and family issues, women's issues kind of more generically. And since 2012, like, this is the space that I've inhabited that God has called me to and I honestly have just been on a learning journey with everybody else of searching the scriptures, integrating biblical truth into the real life, questions and issues that we're grappling with and experiencing around sexuality. So everything from sex and marriage to singleness, to pornography and addiction, sexual abuse, recovery, questions around gender identity and sexual identity. So really discipling Christians on those topics and also, I'd say, within the last four or five years, spending a lot of time equipping pastors and church leaders to do that work within their own ministries.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, yes, I have been actually following your work for many, many years and I am a huge fan. But also I just so appreciate how you step into this space, which can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people. There's not a lot of people out there talking about biblical sexuality and I appreciate how you come at it with practical tools and biblical truth, Like it's such a beautiful integration and I'm just curious, like what made you step into this space?

Dr Juli Slattery:

It was nothing short of God. So, at the time, I was working for Focus on the Family, and that was sort of my dream job just doing their daily broadcast and communicating and learning all that and God just took me through a season of about a year of really seeking Him personally and just transformed me in a way of knowing what intimacy with him is, and during that season, he just burdened my heart for the topic of sexuality and sexual brokenness. It was like he was just saying, hey, there are all these women in particular who are crying out for help. You know like, where are you in my loneliness, where are you in my struggle?

Dr Juli Slattery:

And being at Focus, which is a great ministry, I felt like all we were doing, though, was, on these issues, sort of dropping care packages at 30,000 feet, and the church really didn't know how to be in the trenches with, uh, with people who were suffering and asking hard questions, and so he made it really clear to me that that was what he was calling me to. He sort of moved heaven and earth to show me as he's so gracious to do when he asks us to do hard things, to the point where I just couldn't say no and left focus and co-founded the ministry with Linda Dillillo who some of your listeners might know, but she is just a wonderful spiritual mom and encouraged me to take that step of faith. And then the ministry has just sort of evolved from there as the questions continue to come and as the need really increases and the awareness increases within the Christian church.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, yes, I love Linda as well. I think one of your first books might have been Intimate Issues, which I read years ago.

Dr Juli Slattery:

So, yeah, linda wrote Intimate Issues before I knew her with Lorraine Pintus. Okay, so she has been in this space before I was, and she would say to me, like I'm throwing the mantle on you, like you're taking it for this generation, I'm like I don't know if I want it Right right and. I did co-author Passion Pursuit and then Surprised by the Healer, okay.

Teresa Whiting:

So you are in very good company on this podcast, because we have been talking about sexual brokenness from the beginning. That's kind of what started this podcast in the first place, and so I know that my listeners are going to resonate with the things that you have to share. But, in particular we're talking about today. We're talking about women and porn.

Teresa Whiting:

And that is a topic that is so seldom talked about, and you and Dr Joy Skarka just co-authored a book together and it's called Her Freedom Journey A Guide Out of Porn and Shame to Authentic Intimacy, and I have a copy of it right here and I just finished reading it last week and it is so life-giving. I love it so much because it's both a personal journey I mean, joy shares kind of her story but there's also this component of biblical integration and it's a workbook and it's just so many things wrapped in one. So can you tell us, maybe, why you wrote the book, what's the premise behind it?

Dr Juli Slattery:

Yeah. So Joyce started writing the book by just feeling called like I need to share my story.

Dr Juli Slattery:

She wrote the first kind of take at it or version and it was pretty much all her story and she asked me to look it over and I was like, hey, I think we could write something together that not only is your story but also, um, like a tool of not just I mean, I think there's so much to be gained by hearing another woman's story and learning from her Um, but then when you add to it, like the practical steps of, not just how do you stop looking at pornography, but what are you walking towards, what does wholeness look like, how do you get there?

Dr Juli Slattery:

And so then she and I journeyed together on that, with her giving me what she had written, and I kind of went through and integrated a lot of the things that I've learned over the years in terms of biblical sexuality, sexual brokenness and wholeness. And it's really neat to see how all the pieces came together, because I do think, like if I had written it alone, it would have been lacking so much of, like that compassionate voice that's like, hey, I've been here, I know what this feels like, because the journey of getting free from porn is not a one and done. And you know, for the woman who's like, hey, I've confesses, I prayed to God to take it away and I'm still struggling. That's the norm. Every now and then you'll meet someone who has like this radical one minute transformation. But ninety nine point five percent of people are going to be on a journey, and so it's good to have somebody else with you who's been on that journey, and so Joy's story and voice throughout the book really really encourages women on that.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, yes, it's such a comprehensive guide and and and she really comes alongside the reader as a friend, Like I'm right here with you, which I love.

Teresa Whiting:

I love that voice that she lends to the book. So how big of an issue is women in porn? I mean, it's not something that I've ever heard talked about. The first time I even heard it ever heard this talked about, was when the two of you were talking about it on Java with Julie. So is it a fringe problem? Is it a big problem? Tell us about what maybe the statistics are.

Dr Juli Slattery:

Yeah, you know, I would say probably 20 years ago it was more of a fringe problem. You know a lot of women if they were getting involved in pornography, many times it was because a boyfriend or a husband introduced them to it, and you know the percentages were more like 15 or 20 percent of women who had some sort of struggle with pornography. But we're seeing in the younger generations, like if you look at 40 and younger, but particularly Gen Z, that this is actually a normal issue, unfortunately. So I would say like when you're looking at adolescents and young adults, you're looking at over half of women who have a significant porn struggle. So you know, I think Fifty Shades of Grey, when that first came out, that kind of raised the awareness of pornography. Can be written, it can be erotica. There are a lot of women who are getting pulled into it that way.

Dr Juli Slattery:

But now, with a few things first of all, smartphones and devices like kids are getting exposed to porn, male or female, at the youngest of ages. Second of all, the porn industry has intentionally gone after creating porn that hooks women, and so you know people say, well, aren't men visual and women are not. You know, women can be visually aroused too, and they tend to want more of a storyline attached to that. But the pornography industry brings in more money than the NBA, major League, baseball and NFL combined annually Wow, so you're talking about a multi, multi-billion dollar industry that is very motivated to get consumers hooked young, male and female and so they've aggressively gone after the female market and the result of both of those things, as well as isolation, that we see teenagers and young adults experiencing it's just, you know, like I feel like we have to assume now that you do have a struggle with porn until we find out you don't.

Dr Juli Slattery:

And when I was first even starting in practice, it was the opposite, like you'd assume most people weren't struggling until you found out that they were, but that's completely changed.

Teresa Whiting:

Wow, and here's the thing people aren't talking about it. I mean especially women, and especially Christian women. I think there's so much shame associated with struggling with porn. Can you talk a little bit about the shame that kind of keeps women silent and sucks them in?

Dr Juli Slattery:

is very often paired with masturbation, which is another highly shameful topic that both men and women will say they're struggling with shame if they have a porn struggle. And then you add on the layer of being a Christian and knowing at some level like I shouldn't be struggling with this, there must be something wrong with me. Like every time I look at it, god must be disappointed in me, he hates me, you know. It creates an alienation from God where you feel like I can't go to him, I can't ask him for anything. And then you add the second layer. The third layer really is I'm a woman and the narrative has been, I think, for generations that women aren't sexual. They're the gatekeepers who are kind of trying to keep the guys at bay.

Dr Juli Slattery:

And men are visual and men have all this sex drive. And so if I'm a woman struggling with this, then there's really something wrong with me. And then you add to it you know, particularly with Gen Z, all the messaging that, like sex positivity, porn is good, you should enjoy it, it'll teach you about your body, it'll teach you about your sexual identity. So, teresa, like when you combine all that, it's just like, it's just massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just. And then women feel like they have nowhere to go, like to confess it to get help.

Teresa Whiting:

So uh, yeah, is the message. I'm just curious. I don't know, but is the message in the church today like? Are we adopting the world's message of like it's okay, it's normal to masturbate Like this is fine. The world's message of like it's okay, it's normal to masturbate, like this is fine, this is good. This is part of developing a healthy sexual identity. Is that a thing?

Dr Juli Slattery:

It depends. When you say church, I feel like there's to kind of double down with more of a shame message of you know this is wrong, this is bad, this is sin, you should stop this. So you hear that disagreeing with you. Know, maybe masturbation, pornography is okay, but the underlying, the tenants and thinking that underlying porn use is even more critical to discern, and that is that sex is all about you. Like sex is about your pleasure, it's about your identity, is about figuring out who you are. Like sex is a need, and if you're going to be a healthy adult, you should have freedom to explore and to kind of act out what you feel will be satisfying to you.

Dr Juli Slattery:

And so there are a lot of churches who adopt that underlying message and then they say but don't look at porn. So, um, and that's where it's really conflicting. So I I think that's the bigger issue is that not just have we maybe adopted pornography, but we've adopted a worldview that sets us up for even sex within Christian marriage to be all about what I want when I want it, about, again, it being a need. And you know, sexuality is a very important part of who we are. But having sex and getting what you want sexually is not a need, and so I think the work we have to do is to get a lot deeper into some of the cultural lies that have sort of infiltrated our thinking.

Teresa Whiting:

What are some of those lies? What are the lies that we believe and how do we break free from those lies?

Dr Juli Slattery:

Yeah, there are so many. Like I said, I think one of them is that sex is a need, and to be a whole person, you have to have a sexual outlet, you have to have sexual release, you have to explore sexuality, and that's just really not true. We don't see that in scripture. We see that everyone is sexual but not everyone is having sex or needs to, and so resetting that that really comes out of a humanistic kind of postmodern worldview, not a biblical worldview. I think another lie would be that women aren't sexual. They are, and so I think, once we give women permission to embrace the fact that, yes, you're, by God's design, a sexual person, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that, whether you're single or married, but we have to learn to steward it. So I think that's an important lie that we need to uncover and then to cycle towards.

Dr Juli Slattery:

What is it to steward my sexuality, I think lies like individual women will believe this like I'm forever damaged because I've looked at porn. I'll never be set free. I think also, just viewing porn as a behavior struggle is a big one. So the problem is this behavior I can't stop. Instead of realizing, like, how complicated our struggles with sex and pornography can be. It's often tied into identity. It can be tied into past wounds and how I deal with depression and loneliness. And so when somebody just tells you to stop the behavior without shepherding you through what is that behavior actually serving for you and where does God want to enter into your wounds and your struggles? Like? That's another thing that I think is important to change yes, yes, that is so good.

Teresa Whiting:

And and to to not just look at the behavior but to figure, figure out. You know, what is this stemming from? And going back to those things and bringing healing to those places in our lives? Because, you're right, our behaviors stem from our attitudes, our thoughts, our beliefs, our past trauma, our past experiences, and so all of that is going to contribute to that. So, let's say, a woman steps into the world of porn and then it's like it gets its hooks in her, it's like it doesn't let go. What are some of those things that keep you stuck? Why does this happen?

Dr Juli Slattery:

Yeah, I think there are a few things. Number one we know a lot more about neurobiology than we ever had before and the neurotransmitters that are released when you see something exciting sexually are powerful. And if you think about God's original design, he wanted that first exposure to a of a husband and wife, you know, being naked together for the first time and enjoying sex for the first time. He wanted it to be like a hallmark experience, not the movie hallmark, but like a cornerstone of wow I want to keep coming back to this.

Dr Juli Slattery:

This is awesome. But when that first exposure is to pornography, you have these neural pathways that are powerful, that begin to develop and draw you to want to go back to that again and again, and pornography is designed to feed you novel sexual experiences. So whatever you looked at two years ago is not likely to have the same neural response today, and so pornography will feed you something?

Dr Juli Slattery:

just a little bit more exciting or different to have the same neural response today. And so pornography will feed you something just a little bit more exciting or different, riskier, which gives you a high. It's very much like a drug and that reinforces that neural pathway. So that's the first thing, is just what's happening in the neurobiology of our brains. The second thing is that Pornography really does work like a drug.

Dr Juli Slattery:

So great feelings that come from dopamine and serotonin that produce a sense of euphoria, but also peace. It's short lived, but when you feel depressed, when you feel rejected, when you feel lonely, like that's a quick fix. And now it's readily available, with our access to porn being in every device we have. And so you start to become dependent on that. Um, in a similar way that you could become dependent on, you know, when I feel sad, I eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Or you know like I misuse a good gift. So and that's really the shift of thinking like sex is a good gift, just like ice cream can be a good gift, but when we misuse them and we become dependent upon them is when we start an addictive cycle that can be really harmful. And then I think also the secrecy in pornography. The shame it really keeps us from like bringing this to communities or people that can help us get set free.

Teresa Whiting:

Yeah, yeah, I think that perpetuates itself. The shame keeps you silent, which keeps you trapped, which keeps you more silent, which keeps you trapped, and you just end up in this cycle of of being stuck. Um and so it's, so it's. It's so hard to be the person to go first and say I am struggling with this, and it's hard to find a safe place to even do that, you know, because of the shame associated with it. One of the things you talk about in your book is, you know why trying harder doesn't work, and I love this quote from page 145. You say hard work is usually motivated by fear, surrender is motivated by love and gratitude, and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about why trying harder doesn't set you free.

Dr Juli Slattery:

Why trying harder doesn't set you free. Yeah, so you know, trying harder is sort of making these promises to yourself and God that I'm never going to look at porn again. If I do, I'm going to make myself like run laps or you know, like do something to punish myself. It's really more of a work-based approach to things and, in general, like that self-discipline doesn't work long-term. The people who do find any success from that, they just move their addiction to something else. So maybe they're no longer looking at porn, to something else, so maybe they're no longer looking at porn, but they're overeating or they're vaping or you name it. They've become addicted to performance.

Dr Juli Slattery:

So the invitation that God gives us is not clean up your act, work harder and then come to me.

Dr Juli Slattery:

He's like I know you're a mess and I know that there's nothing you can do to save yourself.

Dr Juli Slattery:

Bring it to me, like when you look at pornography, I'm in the room, I knew that you were tempted by that before you even knew you were tempted by it. And so the approach of surrender that God invites us to is not fix yourself and try harder. It's admit how helpless you are and bring it to me and trust me and trust that my truth can transform you, my love can transform you, that my forgiveness and redemption of your life is complete and begin to walk by faith in those things of your life is complete and begin to walk by faith in those things. And when you talk to people who have really gotten set free from any form of addiction, including sexual addiction or pornography, it's when they've come to the end of themselves and they're like, okay, no more hiding, no more, I'm just going to tell a little bit and keep the rest a secret. It's like I am so desperate for help that I'll do anything and I'm going to bring it all to God and trust him and to show me what the next steps are.

Teresa Whiting:

Yes, I love how you talked about that invitation. You know that Jesus is continuously inviting people into relationship with himself, not after they clean themselves up, not once they get it all together, but he's always saying come to me. And he's not saying, come to church, come to this list of rules. He's inviting us into relationship with himself and I think, as we see him and we know that he sees us for who we are with and he's looking at us with compassion and steadfast love and faithfulness. That loosens some of those chains that compel us to continue in that kind of an addiction. So I love that reminder that it's an invitation to come as we are, as we are, and then he doesn't leave us there Like he then transforms us. It's so beautiful.

Teresa Whiting:

I'm going to break in and interrupt this conversation right here, but we will continue it next week. If you struggle with your sexuality, here are two things I would encourage you to do right now is order a copy of Her Freedom Journey and order a copy of Graced. Those two resources together will help lead you into a place of freedom. I'll have links to them and to everything else that we talked about today in the show notes. In closing, I want to leave you with this prayer from Romans 15, 13. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope.